Comments on: In Jesus’ death, God suffers in love, identifying with us http://www.deTheos.com/2008/03/01/in-jesus-death-god-suffers-in-love-identifying-with-us/ deTheos = but GOD, who is rich in mercy Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:27:22 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Kris Zyp http://www.deTheos.com/2008/03/01/in-jesus-death-god-suffers-in-love-identifying-with-us/comment-page-1/#comment-9666 Kris Zyp Sun, 02 Mar 2008 03:31:41 +0000 http://www.deTheos.com/2008/03/01/in-jesus-death-god-suffers-in-love-identifying-with-us/#comment-9666 Thanks for the appreciation, and I agree with how you state it as well. Your observation about the God/Jesus having received the most harm of anyone (and yet the most undeserving) is super point. When the biggest victim in class-action lawsuit drops the charges, it makes you wonder doesn't it? (especially when is he is a really good attorney :)) My thoughts on this aren't original, they were some book I read once (can't remember the author/title, Willie recommended it), where the author basically just spent most of the time tearing a part various theodicies (rather depressing actually) but ended with asserting the significance of Him joining us in suffering. Thanks for the appreciation, and I agree with how you state it as well. Your observation about the God/Jesus having received the most harm of anyone (and yet the most undeserving) is super point. When the biggest victim in class-action lawsuit drops the charges, it makes you wonder doesn’t it? (especially when is he is a really good attorney :) )
My thoughts on this aren’t original, they were some book I read once (can’t remember the author/title, Willie recommended it), where the author basically just spent most of the time tearing a part various theodicies (rather depressing actually) but ended with asserting the significance of Him joining us in suffering.

]]> By: Jeff http://www.deTheos.com/2008/03/01/in-jesus-death-god-suffers-in-love-identifying-with-us/comment-page-1/#comment-9665 Jeff Sun, 02 Mar 2008 03:10:51 +0000 http://www.deTheos.com/2008/03/01/in-jesus-death-god-suffers-in-love-identifying-with-us/#comment-9665 Kris, I agree. My stool used to be explicitly "three-stooled," but then I began to see (with your help actually!) the arguments made as merely cognitive, as we are speaking for God, and not allowing for the affective aspect -- God entered human history and suffered we us! So perhaps I could clarify that I see the first three as categories and the last one as more of the ultimate reality. Well, all four are ultimate reality, for God's attributes, as being perfect are His perfections, and thus are not 'part' of Him, but His revealed nature through and through. I like your phrase [#4} "is tangible, undeniable proof that God has a theodicy and it is good." Wow. I have to sit and ponder that statement. It is profound. Seriously, I would think that statement would be Keller's book. Would you think the analogy could be changed to a three-legged stool, with the intersection of the three legs being what I mentioned as #4 -- namely, that in Christ God Almighty, All-knowing, All-good, has come to live and dwell and suffer with His creation. After all, the greatest harm that was ever done to a person (in terms of being against a person of the greatest value/worth) is the crucifixion of the Son of God -- and that was all part of God's definite, expressly revealed plan (Acts 2:23). God has suffered with us more than physically... "He considered our situation, and rather than tossing out suffering, joined us in it, and therefore we can trust Him in His plan." Well said. Kris,

I agree. My stool used to be explicitly “three-stooled,” but then I began to see (with your help actually!) the arguments made as merely cognitive, as we are speaking for God, and not allowing for the affective aspect — God entered human history and suffered we us!

So perhaps I could clarify that I see the first three as categories and the last one as more of the ultimate reality. Well, all four are ultimate reality, for God’s attributes, as being perfect are His perfections, and thus are not ‘part’ of Him, but His revealed nature through and through.

I like your phrase [#4} “is tangible, undeniable proof that God has a theodicy and it is good.” Wow. I have to sit and ponder that statement. It is profound. Seriously, I would think that statement would be Keller’s book.

Would you think the analogy could be changed to a three-legged stool, with the intersection of the three legs being what I mentioned as #4 — namely, that in Christ God Almighty, All-knowing, All-good, has come to live and dwell and suffer with His creation. After all, the greatest harm that was ever done to a person (in terms of being against a person of the greatest value/worth) is the crucifixion of the Son of God — and that was all part of God’s definite, expressly revealed plan (Acts 2:23). God has suffered with us more than physically…

“He considered our situation, and rather than tossing out suffering, joined us in it, and therefore we can trust Him in His plan.” Well said.

]]> By: Kris Zyp http://www.deTheos.com/2008/03/01/in-jesus-death-god-suffers-in-love-identifying-with-us/comment-page-1/#comment-9663 Kris Zyp Sun, 02 Mar 2008 02:50:19 +0000 http://www.deTheos.com/2008/03/01/in-jesus-death-god-suffers-in-love-identifying-with-us/#comment-9663 It would seem to me that #4 isn't really another category that we must uphold in attempting a cohesive theodicy like the other three. #4 isn't another divine attribute challenging us in how to form theodicy, but rather is undeniable, tangible proof that God has a theodicy and it is good. We may struggle to come up with a coherent way to bring the other three legs together under stool (I think anyway that doesn't struggle with it, hasn't really thought about it), but #4 assures that God figured it out. He considered our situation, and rather than tossing out suffering, joined us in it, and therefore we can trust Him in His plan. It would seem to me that #4 isn’t really another category that we must uphold in attempting a cohesive theodicy like the other three. #4 isn’t another divine attribute challenging us in how to form theodicy, but rather is undeniable, tangible proof that God has a theodicy and it is good. We may struggle to come up with a coherent way to bring the other three legs together under stool (I think anyway that doesn’t struggle with it, hasn’t really thought about it), but #4 assures that God figured it out. He considered our situation, and rather than tossing out suffering, joined us in it, and therefore we can trust Him in His plan.

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