A response to a friend
(I’m posting a response to a friend as we’ve gone back and forth related to the nature of truth, and claims of exclusivity — can Jesus be the only way? Is there even a ‘way’? Tim’s been patient in awaiting a response. He’s also a tax/debt relief consultant — I’m happy to refer you to Tim if that’s your need; he’s a solid guy, known him for years. Here goes my response …)
Tim,
Thanks for your patience on this response. Let me consider your two scenarios, then one of your questions. You asked about two types of people:
- What do you think God thinks and does to an atheist who lives his or her life feeding the poor, clothing the naked and healing the sick?
- And what does God think or do to a Christian who attends church every week, and professes their faith, but other than doesn’t do much else to speak of?
I say both are being inconsistent with their worldview. (I’ll be much harder on one of them, and I know you have a degree in comparative religion and I could employ much more technical language here. Seems that here and on Facebook we’re both writing for others to track along, so I’ll present an argument as straightforward as I can. For those who follow for the pictures, sorry to disappoint 
.
Again, both are being inconsistent with their worldview. First, let me be blunt: the atheist has no actual moral basis to value people. (That isn’t to say atheists don’t have morals and high standards and do good. They can and do often. Very much so.) But, what is their foundation for these selfless acts of feeding, clothing and healing? If there is no design to this world, and therefore no cosmic justice, then what is right and wrong? Who’s to say? By what standard can an atheist say something is right, and something is wrong (universally)? I don’t think all atheists are relativists, but wonder how a standard of morality can arise from a belief that no God has acted in history and revealed Himself as Creator (law-giver, judge, ruler, Father, great love and source of all).
Can we all agree that we know these acts of compassion demonstrated by this loving atheist are noble and good? But from where does this love come? I don’t have much of a problem with that first scenario, because some of the innate sense of goodness and rightness in all of us is the residual traces of the image of God (the Imago Dei). Let me consider a parallel issue: our fallen, sinful nature (Depravity). The teaching of Depravity (according to God in the Bible) is not so much that we are horrific, awful beings. Most of us really aren’t as bad as we could be, for sure. We’re bad and capable of terrible acts and thoughts (read the newspaper, follow the Police blotter around a college campus, tune into the evening news); most of these acts are trivial, and many destructive. We are also capable of so much good. Which is why sin and moral evil is such a riddle for this world. Enter Jesus who entered this Grand Story to show us the way, and reverse the curse of our ways. What does God think of this person #1, the selfless atheist? This person needs to turn from trusting in himself, to confess his evils, and especially his good works that are not done to make the true God known. It’s the same for a religions person.
It seems that Depravity is more that everything we do and are is tainted with sin. Our intellect is limited (“fallen” we call it), and our bodies break down towards death. Our spirits are not acutely aware of spiritual movements. The reality is more complex and deep than words can describe. What does it take for us to be renewed and become un-depraved? A total renewal of all things, which is one key reason why Jesus came. He offers His life to us to re-make us into God’s image, to pattern of life He granted us in the beginning. Much more to say here, but I want to underscore the other scenario you mention…
The bigger problem is with the Christian you mention who does all the “good” so-called-Christian things, but “doesn’t do much else to speak of.” In that way he/she actually isn’t acting as a Christian, for this new life should be God-centered and others-directed. Love gives its life away, as Jesus did. That person generally described by life before Jesus struck my soul like lightning (age 18). I was generally a “good” person by many accounts, at least by horizontal comparison to others. People would say I was “Christian” but I wasn’t. Not inwardly, and not outwardly. But, I was selfish, arrogant, and very much desirous to seem like a good person while using others to get my way.
Any person who names Jesus as Lord but lives a pathetic, lifeless, overall selfish existence (according to Christ’s standards) is actually in rebellion and defiance to whom they claim to belong. This cannot be the envisioned by Jesus, that moves from death to life, from purposeless to purpose, from self to others. This person #2 cannot be “professing their faith,” for the Christian message is more than mere words. Someone sold them a raw bill of goods, or they just want a ticket to heaven and nothing more. May get neither.
I’ve been thinking on and meditating the last week on a specific passage: 2nd Peter 1:1-10, which speaks to this kind of person, and the great potential for God’s live to shine through a person who submits to Him through Jesus. We must be profitable and fruitful in our experiential knowledge of our shared life in Jesus. If we aren’t growing and reproducing Christ-like love towards others, we have to wonder if we belong to Him.
This is the bigger scandal of the two people you mention, and I cannot make any apologies for a person who lives like this. What does God think of this person? Probably more than I might I regularly sit and speak with church-going people who are battling to not go the path of the quasi-Christian route you describe. To some I can give an urgent appeal and encouragement; to others I offer no immediate encouragement but a loving plea to turn to Christ, abandoning both their sin and their supposed goodness.
Let me wrap this up by pointing past my limited perspective and experience. I’ve appealed to God’s revealed Word — written in the Bible and come in human form in Jesus. I’ve aimed to represent them well. Also, I’d like to suggest two current resources for reflection. One is a fast paced movie-documentary called COLLISION (came out last week, actually). Deals with this exact scenario you are talking about (the two people), and not distinctly from a Christian standpoint. Well-known anti-theist Christopher Hitchens (author of God is Not Great, et al) debates in a civil manner with pastor/theologian Douglas Wilson. They don’t just speak past one another; they care and come together like friends, it seems. They wrestle with the crux question, “Is Christianity good for the world?” One says no, the other yes. Find the trailer on YouTube or Vimeo (or my site). I’m happy to mail you a copy of the DVD to borrow for a bit.
The other is a book, The Reason for God: Belief in an Age of Skepticism, which is a fascinating read. New York City pastor and author Tim Keller shows how everyone has exclusive beliefs. He carefully argues that embracing the exclusive truth claims of Christ do not make someone an intolerant, threatening neighbor. And that is part of why Christianity (as Christ brought to us) should be good for the world. We above all people should refrain from seeking any privileged status and give our lives for justice, mercy, truth, and the good of others. We have everything to gain and nothing to lose, for our lives are hidden in God. (Again, I’m happy to send you a copy you can keep.)
Tim, you earlier made a point by asking that if Jesus has done everything for us (His believers/followers), then what is the point of doing anything? Well, He is the whole point. He is the new humanity, as God sent Himself to show us what He is like and how the world shall be. This is what the best human life looks like, how being connected to others in harmony should be. Jesus coming towards us makes life now worth it. (What did we do with Him? How did we respond to the most selfless one? We rejected Him.) It was through this self-emptying act in Jesus that God was reconciling the world to Himself, making good works possible. The message is Good News for us because He made us alive and rescued us from sin and death (Ephesians 2:1-9), because of His performance not ours. But are we just rescued from bad things (eternally)? What about the good (now and forever)? We read that He intentionally rescued us so that our lives would be His works of art to display His goodness, empowered by His love and walking in the path of good works He planned for us in advance (the very next verse: Ephesians 2:10; also 2nd Corinthians 5:9-16+).
Forgive me if I’m being unclear here. Thanks for reading along.
5 comments
Yeah, I think that’s the atheist’s dilemma. Lewis says in The Abolition of Man, “If nothing is self-evident, nothing can be proven.” (First-cause epistemology?) That’s kind of been modernism’s and postmodernism’s whole deal – man attempting to stand up on his own after cutting his legs out from under him.
I’d also add that people’s tendency to argue in extreme hypotheticals has limited relevance to life. I need to understand how the mind a real atheist Mother Teresa works, not an imaginary one. I don’t doubt they’re out there. I could invent hypotheticals all day, but a real example would give us the conversation somewhere it could actually go, and would be a much stronger argument for the atheist.
And finally, #2 is the “Christian”‘s dilemma. “Narrow is the gate.”
Man made laws and beliefs can be changed in time with persistence, time, and consistent complaint. I’ve seen this when it comes to sex, drugs, money, and many other things.
Hi Jeff,
Thank you for your patience and for sharing your theological viewpoints in response to my questions. I feel like I better understand your orientation and your ‘lense.’
I was most struck by your experience you mentioned when you were 18. I have no doubt your having your soul “struck by lightning” was a very formative and powerful one for you. I have had several similar experiences which have led me to continue to strive for deeper meaning in my life.
For me, by spending the better half of the last 10 years genuinely exploring many spiritual/religious traditions with an open mind, I have had experiences and insights which have led me to conclude that Christianity does not have a patent on these soul-stirring experiences, and that Jesus is by no means the only path to finding answers to life’s deeper mysteries.
My thought is that DURING these life-changing “lightning shocks” we do not have a name or a thought system surrounding our experience. It is only afterward that we try to make sense of them and incorporate them into our lives so that we can live more richly and connected to something deeper. It seems like for you that Jesus and Christianity have been what rings true, which I respect. Again, I just don’t think that Jesus is the only way. This seems like something we may need to disagree on.
My hope is that we and everyone else, in holding our own theological viewpoints and beliefs, be it through a God metaphor, or an “A-Theist” one, can continue to hold enough space for others with differing orientations, and that we can all strive to live by doing positive actions which help us to continue to grow and make this world a better place for everyone.
Those are my thoughts for now.
Best to you and your family,
Tim
Tim,
I always appreciate your comments. You are thoughtful, smart, and are "genuinely exploring," which on the web is refreshing (and sadly, rare).
I have some thoughts on your final paragraph (in agreement):
Let me chew on this a bit longer and offer a response that I think is in accordance with yours. (Will need to wait on that. And I’ll add a question or two for your take.)
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On a parallel note, to come back to some comments we have shared in earlier correspondence: that is why I think there is a place for the Gospel of Jesus in our pluralistic society, as the fuel for giving away our lives. Think about this: when we say that all religions are the same, it sounds on the surface quite humble and loving. Who could argue with love?! I certainly won't, at least on one level. On another level there are some intrinsic issues…
However, it elevates one relativistic viewpoint above all others (and is thus an exclusive claim). At best, it is no more exclusive than the viewpoint I’ve set forth. At worst, it is wrong-headed, not finding an authority in any faith tradition nor in reason. (And thus could be self-defeating.) A key difference is that while I must appeal to a higher authority — specifically the revelation of Jesus and His words demonstrated to be true in his signs — while a pluralist can only appeal to their own authority, and thus, I propose that is an arrogant claim. (I pray I do not come across as defensive here.) All religions have a prophet, a god-spokesperson who says X is what "god" wants to you know and do, and in Christianity we see GOD Himself coming to us personally. This is totally undeserved!
While it appears that most religions are for moral improvement, the message of Jesus is not that at all. (He must totally rewire our lives and we should become more like Him, inwardly and in our positive actions for the good of the world.) When we say that everyone needs Jesus it may come across as saying we are proud of ourselves and "WE" are the way, truth and the life. Living like Jesus will not any of us into God's favor (or Heaven eternally). It is obvious that I (or WE) am not the way, and have numerous flaws of character. To say we have Jesus is not the same as saying we are better than others. We must admit we are worse! Therefore we need God to initiate with us!
(Good summary here, an interview with Tim Keller on the ideas behind his book The Reason for God. Really good and conversational. I appreciate his irenic and non-combative style.)
Fun memory: Last weekend I was playing Lincoln Logs with my son (he's better at demo than construction!), and had flashbacks to playing at your house 2+ decades ago with that same game/toys. The world changes and yet stays the same.
Have a great Thanksgiving my friend. All the best to your family! It's fun to reconnect, and you give me much to think about.
I really appreciate what you post here, very refreshing and intelligent. One issue though, I’m running Firefox on Ubuntu and parts of your layout pieces are a little broken. I realize it’s not a common setup, but it’s still something to keep an eye on. Just tossing you a heads up.