Two videos here, both speakers are not believers in Jesus (or one of His followers). Both with different perspectives on this question … or, perhaps just different on the surface. What do you think? (

“I’d like to say something about Christians trying to convert non-Christians.”

At the end of an interview for a series we were doing at The Journey Church (St. Louis), Pastor Jonathan McIntosh’s good friend Aaron turned to him and said, “I’d like to say something about Christians trying to convert non-Christians.” This is what he said… (3:21)

(originally found here)

Penn Says: A Gift of a Bible

“How much do you have to hate someone to not want to convert them?”
Noted atheist Penn Jillette (of Penn & Teller) recalls a time an attendee of his show stuck around and gave him a Bible with a personal note. The story starts off a bit slow, but listen to his first-hand account (5 min). A portion of his words transcribed below.

“I’ve always said that I don’t respect people who don’t proselytize. I don’t respect that at all. If you believe that there’s a heaven and a hell, and people could be going to hell or not getting eternal life, and you think that it’s not really worth telling them this because it would make it socially awkward—and atheists who think people shouldn’t proselytize and who say just leave me along and keep your religion to yourself—how much do you have to hate somebody to not proselytize? How much do you have to hate somebody to believe everlasting life is possible and not tell them that?

“I mean, if I believed, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that a truck was coming at you, and you didn’t believe that truck was bearing down on you, there is a certain point where I tackle you. And this is more important than that.”

—
Update: wrote this post a a few days ago but the Penn Says video was highlighted here by JT as well. (Thanks to JT for typing out the transcript.)

The author of a book they use in group students wrote:

"The blessing of God was upon Aaron’s line, upon the priestly role in the old covenant until the Messiah came.  So central was this that some of the Jews in the centuries before Jesus speculated that there would be two Messiahs, a priestly one and a kingly one!  Jesus is the root and offspring of David but he is also the root and offspring of Aaron and the priestly line."

The leader asked: Since the Bible is clear Jesus came from the tribe of Judah we’re thinking the above is just metaphorical and not actual genealogy. Or are we missing something?

Here’s most of my response:

Good question. I think I agree with the author here.

There are three OT Offices Jesus had to fulfill:

• Prophet
• Priest
• King

In Him is the full embodiment of God’s revelation. As Prophet He speaks as God (Heb. 1:1-3). As Priest He comes to mediate between God and man, as the God-Man (1 Tim. 2:1-7), and as King His Name is above all names (Phil. 2:8-11) . Could plug in dozens of Scriptures for each of those.

Some highlights in the OT give us clue to the connected identity of the One Messiah: Prophet (Deut. 18), Priest (God is the only holy priest), King (2 Sam. 7). But the amazingness to the Jews must have been how this could come in one person. Thus, many had a tradition and commentary that there must be two! Add to the mix this one caveat: Only God (YHWH) is the Savior (Isa. 45; notice the connection between v. 23 and Phil. 2:10-11). Someone must come Who is all of these, and so much more.

The thing is that Jesus had to come from both lines, in some sense. He could be a King, in the line of David. But not a priest. That is part of the argument in Hebrews 7 + 10, regarding Melchizedek and Jesus. The Covenant promises to David, and the lineage of His Son to establish the (Theocratic) Kingdom of God to rule and reign forever are so key. The other lineage is symbolic, for as you mention, Jesus came from the line of Judah (from which no priest had/will ever come). Think of Aaron’s budding rod/staff as a signpost on the way to Jesus (Heb. 9:4), the fulfillment of true worship and priestly service to God. In the context of Numbers, notice in that this event is the exact opposite of Korah’s rebellion — strange fire, religion coming on man’s terms. Aaron’s rod budded out of God’s free will and initiation.

(Speaking of the 3 offices, it is interesting to note that in the Psalms David essentially writes time and again that he would gladly trade in both of his offices (Prophet + King) for the one he longed to be — a Priest. In Christ we have The High Priest, the only Mediator (1 Tim. 2), and as the God-Man is both of the others as well.)

This help?

I’d share the first paragraph I wrote above ("As Prophet/Priest/King") if you want to share any of this with your group.

Digging into the Word with you!

Jeff
p.s.- If you need another handy reference as you study all the Scriptures on the way to Jesus (OT), I have a copy of From Creation to the Cross , which you could borrow. One of my professors wrote it, and it is an extremely helpful book, and full of charts, summaries and maps.

For those wondering what "triperspectivalism" means, it is essentially the emphasis of ministering from all three perspectives: prophet, priest and king. Only Jesus is all Three, yet we can follow His example and share leadership on those trajectories. There is a wealth of good resources on the topic here . Especially helpful as a primer is this diagram .

I have more a doctrinal and administrative (prophet and king, respectively) bent, so I must always come back to the Gospel, to see people through the lens of a loving priest (pastor) — just like Paul did in 1 Cor. 1:1-9. (Note that I normally don’t use the big "T" word in communicating with people, but seek to embody it in all I do. Another example forthcoming from another question I received.)

"How great a forest is set ablaze by such a small fire! 6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell. 7 For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, 8 but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. 9 With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. 10 From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so. 11 Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? 12 Can a fig tree, my brothers, bear olives, or a grapevine produce figs? Neither can a salt pond yield fresh water."

Notice that portion in vv. 9 & 10. The duplicity — and power (vv. 5-8) — of our words is astonishing. We used to chant the lie, that "sticks and stones … but words will never hurt me." That’s totally false. Words are far more destructive than any object thrown. At least with sticks and stones the damage is seen, and visible reminder. Yet, words can wound far deeper, and the scars remind though hidden.

The point is illustrated deeply in my own mind as I contemplate my son’s increasing vocabulary (all dozen or so words), and think of how he said "Bible" for the first time today. Wow.

Someday he will realize the infinite worth of the Book he is talking about — I hope and pray his eyes go open as God shines His light. Yet, today, I am really his best connection to what the Bible is all about. Do I bless God, and speak of and from the Bible, and then turn around and reveal a disdain for people, for whom Christ died? He sees it when I do. And although he cannot speak in sentences, he certainly can think complete thoughts. He is arriving at conclusions about our Creator on the basis of our few hours together each day. I speak and pray in front of my son: that God is our Father. Who is Dutch’s father? Does he see a correlation, and will he desire to know this Father whom I love and know and weep at His sheer grace. Is that coming across to my son?

Kari assures me I’m doing well. Yet as a father — twice now — these thoughts weigh on me, as they should. And I hope and pray to be like my own Dad who always has joyful and pleasant words, who is a gentle man who radiates care as a father should.

Resolve to make our words personal

Can we resolve to use our words for the building up of one another?

• Have you recently harmed someone with words, even in a small way? Will you resolve to take practical, even humiliating steps, to seek forgiveness and reconciliation?
• Or, perhaps it is the other way around: How can you forgive them in love?
• Start with those you are connected to. If getting out of that rut seems insurmountable, with and the bickering, complaining and sarcasm, then start "small."
• Begin with those who may seem to be of little importance, on the fringe of your daily life — like those who pump your gas, serve your feed, and drive your kid’s school bus. We can tell a lot about a person by how he or she treats people who supposedly are not adding value to our lives. Are we adding value to theirs?
• Have you realized they may be having a worse day than you are? (Have I realized that?)

Take an interest in them, and in doing so, lose yourself in the beauty of what it means for all persons to be image-bearers of our Creator. Each one of us is marred and worse off than we realize, yet more loved than we dared imagine.

Let’s speak to one another (as made in the image/likeness of God) like we are speaking to Christ, who is The Image of God. That is how it is supposed to be.

Seeking Honest Answers: Are You a Christian?

…. Here is a very short list of questions to ask those who claim to be saved but who show little evidence of such commitment. It’s not exhaustive but is intended to help start conversation.

Do you love God? In your heart, do you desire to follow Him, worship Him, and obey Him? Does your professed love for God stretch into action? Does it have any practical effect on your life? Would others characterize you as one who loves God? Do you adore God? Do you want to adore Him?

Do you love the Bible? Do you want to follow the One whom it reveals, Jesus Christ, and follow His commandments? Do you enjoy reading the Bible and take nourishment from it? Do you struggle to read it and possess little desire to obey it? Do you care about the Bible? Do you seek to understand how it should be interpreted, or do you care more about how it fits or does not fit with your natural prejudices and opinions? Do you believe that the Bible is true? Is it all true, or are only parts of it true?

Do you love Christians? Or are they like any other people group out there? Does your love take on a practical form? Do you love other Christians more than you love people from your background–your hometown, home state, college or university, athletic team, peer group? Do you desire to serve other Christians? Do you care when you hear about suffering Christians in other countries?

Do you love living out and sharing the gospel? Do you monetarily support other Christians in need? Do you share the gospel with lost people? Do you care if someone is lost? Is that a concern that comes quickly into your mind when talking with another person? Do you pray much for the salvation of lost sinners? Do you want people to be saved? Do you attempt to live out a Christian life in front of other people? Do you inconvenience yourself to present the gospel to others? Do you suffer in any form for the sake of the gospel? Or is your life free of the sting associated with vibrant Christianity lived out in a pagan world? Do you seek to win family members to Christ? Or do you assume they’re fine? Do you ask them penetrating questions or do you simply assume that they are saved? When dealing with others, are spiritual concerns first in your mind?

Do you enjoy church and draw nourishment from it? Is church endlessly boring to you? Do you like preaching? Do you see the need to be confronted about your sin? Do you avoid church in order to avoid being “judged” or “condemned”? Do you love interaction with other believers? Do you want to support the local church? Do you want to support missionaries? Does the spiritual good of other people concern you? Is it more important for you to do your favorite things on Sunday or to worship God with other believers? Do you continually struggle with finding the motivation to go to church? Do you want to go to church?

Does the matter of eternity concern you? Do you want to go to heaven? Do you not want to go to hell? Do you believe in heaven and hell? If so, does your belief take any actional form? Do you desire to go to heaven to worship God for eternity? Do you want to go to heaven because that’s where your favorite people and things are? Do you think about hell? Do you live as if eternity exists?

Does the Bible shape your ethics and morals? Or do you just go with what you feel at a gut level? Or what your parents told you? When there is conflict between your natural worldview and what the Bible says, which side wins? Do you ever change your mind as a result of reading the Bible? When making political, ethical, and moral decisions, do you consider scriptural teachings, or do you base your decisions on your moral sense? Do you want the Bible to shape your ethics? Or do you not really care? Does the Bible affect what you watch, read, and listen to? Or do you just assume everything’s fine? Do you ever avoid or turn off content that is biblically offensive? Do you care if content is moral or immoral in an explicitly biblical sense?

That’s a basic starting point. If used well, these questions could provide a starting point from which to engage people you love on the question of their Christianity. They claim it, but you see little fruit. Seek an opportunity to ask them these questions–or questions of your own–that get to the heart of the matter. Email these questions to someone, call a friend, pull aside a family member when you’re in town together. Listen well, be empathetic and understanding, and share the gospel.

Turn someone back from the edge.

(Owen posted a follow-up as well.)